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View Full Version : Adjusting the 5cm F1.5 J-3


Brian
12-19-2008, 09:00 PM
The J-3 is based on the pre-war Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar, and is available in Contax/Kiev mount and in 39mm thread mount.
Both versions are built to the Contax 52.4mm standard, according to the specification sheet that came with
the "new-old-stock" 39mm thread mount versions that I bought. This typically means that the lens must be
"shimmed" to work more accurately with a camera built to the Leica 51.6mm standard.

I've also found that the RF coupling in some lenses needs to be adjusted, as was necessary with this
1983 lens.

so,
1) the optics module unscrews from the focus mount;

2) Set the focus to infinity. The Focus Ring is held on by three set screws, undo them with a small jewelers screwdriver
and carefully put them somewhere safe. I use an ice-cube tray.


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My Kitchen Table (when home alone!)

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/76d257c9734a726bfaa5060e4c7d9450cf0efe2.jpg


3) Keep the helical positioned at infinity. The Helical is held in the mount by 3 set screws. Loosen them, if too loose, place them somewhere safe. You can now move the helical
in the mount. If the lens could not drive the RF to infinity, it needs to be screwed in a bit more. If it drove the RF past infinity,
it needs to to come out a bit. You have to tighten the helical down to get an accurate reading from the camera. So, leave the helical in the infinity position, screw it in or
back it out of the mount, tighten the screws, and test it on the camera.

If the helical can't be screwed in far enough to get the RF to infinity, you need an extra step. You need to grind the mount down a little bit. Take out the three set screws
and store them safely. Take the helical out of the mount. The idea is to polish a little bit of the mount down so that the helical can be screwed in closer to the camera body.
I use some coarse sand paper for this, placing it on a hard flat surface. Move the mount over it in smooth, circular motions. Take off a little bit at a time. Thoroughly clean the
filings off of the mount and then Re-insert the helical into the mount, tighten the set screws, and check the RF alignment on the camera.


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http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/00f35a9892344c562509f08b5baf7da8fcb9e1c.jpg

The Helical set to infinity should now couple with the camera, and show infinity for a distant object.
Now you need to get the focus ring back on, and have the distance scale read infinity. You need to
tap out three new holes for the set screws. This is a pain.

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http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/13915c964c25f954100ac0a0abf171e1e88decc.JPG




I start by putting the focus ring over the helical and positioning the Infinity mark to the "thin red line". Scribe it, and ever-so-carefully begin to drill it out with a '000' drill bit.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/17515d97432afa55a74d78afa7f5657586fe1d8.JPG

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Once the first one is done, I put in a set screw to hold the ring on and proceed to the next two screw holes.

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Next up is collimating the optics module into the mount. The J-3 optics module has a variable stand-off ring that can be used for fine adjustments. Normally, I prefer to use a different shim. If the focus is really close, within 1/2 turn of the stand-off ring, I'll use it. It's held in by two set screws. Back them off, adjust the ring. You will need to tap out holes for them to be flush. The stand-off ring has to be well centered for the optics to screw in properly to the focus mount.


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http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/2d23598191cf46ba2f18f44f5cef8ae0ba330f8.JPG

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I use a through-the-lens viewer to match the focus of the lens to agree with the RF of my Canon IIf. Before I found this device, I used an opaque film strip at the film gate and a 15x loupe. An SLR focus screen can also be used. You'll need shims from parts lenses, or do what I did originally- cut retaining rings and polish them down. Ouch.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/59d25e69ac42f2e4f3a5caa80347c4b142cf1f6.jpg

Last step is to line-up the F-Stop ring. Scribe the outer rim of the filter ring to line-up with the focus indicator. Then unscrew the optics module that you just collimated to perfection. Undo the three set screws of the aperture ring, turn it to line up to where you want. On this lens, I went with the red dot as it was easy to see over the finder. This is the rare case, when you have to adjust the helical in the mount. Usually, the little red dot stays in place, and you just have to line the F-Stop ring to that location. You will need to tap out new holes for the set screws, and I use the same triple-zero bit for it.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/d4125af96249826ff05515dd73f60d099dc2d95.jpg

tenderobject
06-07-2009, 05:14 PM
hello brian,

do you have repair manuals or instruction for J-3 screwmount calibration or cleaning? i have a user j-3 screwmount but still have problem even after we put on some paper shims there. in full opening the j-3 is not focus atleast 1 and 1/2 feet to the focus area. what should i do? hopefully there is some tutorials on how to clean and fix this beautiful lens online..

thanks!

Brian
06-08-2009, 06:29 AM
Kim Coxon hosts a repair manula that I did for the J-3 in LTM.

http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/j3service.pdf

Pick a set distance, say 5ft: how far is the focus off at 5ft, and in what direction is the error?

tenderobject
06-08-2009, 08:46 AM
Kim Coxon hosts a repair manula that I did for the J-3 in LTN.

http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/j3service.pdf

Pick a set distance, say 5ft: how far is the focus off at 5ft, and in what direction is the error?

hi brian,


this are the images my friend shoot when testing the j3..

sample at f1.5

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/gamepencil/fed2j3calibrate3.jpg
the camera is focused in the old lady.

sample at f5

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/gamepencil/fed2j3calibrate2.jpg

i'll try to work on this one when i have time. is paper shims ok for j3? :)

Brian
06-08-2009, 07:00 PM
Paper shims are okay, but your lens is front-focusing. That means the shim is too thick: the optics are farther from the film than what the RF indicates. So: remove the shims. Try taking out about 0.2mm or so to start. Also: check the variable stand-off ring, it might be unscrewed too far.

tenderobject
06-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Paper shims are okay, but your lens is front-focusing. That means the shim is too thick: the optics are farther from the film than what the RF indicates. So: remove the shims. Try taking out about 0.2mm or so to start. Also: check the variable stand-off ring, it might be unscrewed too far.

thanks brian.

actually when i got this j3 i think it doesn't have much shims or something.. aperture diapragm is pushed on to the lens barrel.. he told me he got 1 shim on it. so my friend tried to put paper shim so the aperture diapragm would go milimitters apart from the barrel.. kinda weird. i'll try to adjust it again when i get back from vacation :)

how would i know how old is a j3? contax / screwmount version?

thanks

Brian
06-09-2009, 06:35 AM
On a J3, the first two digits are the year of manufacture. It sounds like someone worked on this lens and did not do a good job. The aperture ring has three set screws, undo them and then unscrew the ring a few turns to clear the lens mount. The shims purpose is to set the correct focus.

Contax version: bayonet mount and no focus action on the lens. LTM: threads, and a focus ring.

tenderobject
06-09-2009, 01:57 PM
On a J3, the first two digits are the year of manufacture. It sounds like someone worked on this lens and did not do a good job. The aperture ring has three set screws, undo them and then unscrew the ring a few turns to clear the lens mount. The hsims purpose is to set the correct focus.

Contax version: bayonet mount and no focus action on the lens. LTM: threads, and a focus ring.

thanks a lot brian.. i will update this thread whenever im done fixing it. :)

jmkelly
09-14-2009, 10:39 PM
Brian's instructions followed carefully, resulting in a 1945 CZJ hacked into a mount comprised of a 1977 Valdai LTM back and a 1958 ZOMZ focus module. Looks like this:
http://images51.fotki.com/v178/photos/3/1126243/7952651/P1000168-vi.jpg
http://images41.fotki.com/v1577/photos/3/1126243/7952651/P1000169-vi.jpg

jmkelly
09-14-2009, 10:54 PM
The lens makes a nice image on the R-D1; f1.5 at minimum distance:
http://images51.fotki.com/v178/photos/3/1126243/7952651/EPSN7139-vi.jpg

Some more shots found here (http://public.fotki.com/jkellyca/sonnar-variants/1945-czj-frankenlens-1/).

Brian
09-15-2009, 08:24 PM
VERY NICE!

Did you take pictures during the conversion? I would be interested in you posting an illustrated thread if you would.

Very nice paint job.

jmkelly
09-16-2009, 11:48 PM
Thanks Brian. I did not shoot any pictures of the process because what I did looked more or less identical to the shots you posted to this thread. This link (http://public.fotki.com/jkellyca/sonnar-variants/1945-czj-frankenlens-1/) shows some shots of the CZJ Sonnar disassembled. My summary of the process:

I bought this C-bayonet mount 1945 CZJ Sonnar 5cm f1.5 off eBay. When it arrived I found the worst case of separation in the rear element I have ever seen. The lens proved to have a brass shell and an alloy optic module. The optic module is not 100% alloy - the screw-in module holding the rear triplet is brass, and stamped with the same serial number as the front retaining ring. The rear triplet came out of the brass mount in three very cleanly separated pieces. With the rear triplet from a 1937 CZJ Sonnar installed, the lens made a very good image on the R-D1 mounted in the Amadeo adapter.

I decided that the optics from this C-mount lens would serve as the donor to a black-body hybrid, using the mount from a black 1958 ZOMZ J-3. However, this J-3 mount would not drive the RF cam on my R-D1 or Leica IIIf BD to infinity, even with the focus helical screwed all the way in. Further, this 1958 focus mount would not screw in AT ALL to my black <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">IIIf RD</st1:address></st1:Street> body. So I scavenged the LTM end from a black 1977 Valdai J-3, which screwed into the black <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">IIIf RD</st1:address></st1:Street> easily. When I screwed just the 1958 J-3 focus helical all the way into this 1977 LTM, the RF cam of the black <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">IIIf RD</st1:address></st1:Street> went perfectly to infinity - with the aperture dot exactly lined up with the triangle index mark no less.

Then it was a fairly simple matter to drop in the 1945 CZJ optic module (with the 1937 rear triplet). First I screwed the module al the way into the mount, and confirmed that the lens back-focused badly at minimum distance and full aperture when mounted on the R-D1 with an LTM adapter. Then I backed the optic module out of the mount until focus seemed clear, which turned out to be just over two full turns. I found a spot where the near-focus is very good - another 10° out. Surprisingly, the aperture ring lined up with the index mark on the mount. I set the optic module by backing out the standoff ring and re-tapping the set screws - no shims.

I thought about mounting the black aperture ring from the J-3 on the CZJ optic module, but no go - the J-3 aperture ring is a different diameter, and attaches to the module only with screws, while the CZJ aperture ring threads on. So the final step was to remove the CZJ aperture ring and paint it black. I used an airbrush to lightly apply gloss black “fine-grain” enamel (from Micro Tools), let it dry overnight, and baked it for 5 min at 500° F. With this done I assembled the lens, and confirmed that it shot clearly on the R-D1.

Brian
09-17-2009, 06:23 PM
Well Done! I've found that the optics tend to be swappable between lenses, and the optical fixtures are the key to getting the focus and focal length correct.

I just picked up a second 1953 J-3 in LTM, cheap. Front element has some damage. I'm going to look at using the rear triplet to fix a wartime sonnar with some internal coating damage. The Sonnar is usable, maybe a little more flare- but the 53 J-3 "most Likely" is German Glass. This is one way to find out.

jmkelly
09-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Brian - the evident swapability of the glass between lenses of different vintages - and even different provenances - has come as a surprise to me. I expect I have been lucky so far, as I recall you have encountered some combinations that could not be made to work.

BTW - The optic module in the 1945 Contax mount lens I used in my project looks a lot like the module in your gallery of the 1949 ZK - interesting.

Exile
10-03-2010, 04:16 AM
Lovely shot John.

Maxklimov
01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Hello, Brian!

I wanted to contact you by PM but couldn't sort out how, I want to adjust one or maybe even a few Jupiter lenses to work on my leica m cameras, will it be possible to send them to you for that mod? You can answer me by email if that's alright with you:

Max.klimoff@mail.ru

I will be looking forward for you reply!
Thanks,
Maxim

Brian
01-08-2011, 07:24 PM
I always let people know that I am a hobbyist, and will work on the J-3 and J-8 by request from forum members. I have limited parts. Some of these lenses can be a can of worms, and sometimes "a hack" is required to make them work. I do not strip things to aperture blades and such that a pro shop would do.

MAX- I sent you a PM. In the upper right of the screen, you should have a message waiting. Let me know if it works.

Maxklimov
01-08-2011, 08:43 PM
Thank you for the quick response, yes I have received a PM from you but for some reason could not reply to it, maybe it's because I am using iPad (I am not able to use proper computer for the next few days as I am not at home)

I defently want to convert at least one Jupiter 8 as I already arranged to buy one when I am back to Moscow and if I manage to find one more of them and maybe Jupiter 3 again if I manage to get one ASAP, I am also happy with your the price.

Thanks
Maxim

Brian
10-08-2011, 09:42 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/5720140934_93d6d7c940_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58795774@N03/5720140934/)
redleaf kmz J3 f15 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58795774@N03/5720140934/) by zeiss_sonnar (http://www.flickr.com/people/58795774@N03/), on Flickr