Dating Sonnar 50/1,5

[leicat]

Hello!
I'm looking for help in dating my 50/1,5 sonnar.
Serial number is 2858457. There are blue coatings and red T mark on front ring.
I've checked google for information about zeiss serial numbers and found some indicating it may be wartime version, but i'm far from being sure.
There's also one, strange thing about it: my sonnar has few (or maybe even more than 10) very small air bubbles in its glass, which is, i belive, rather unusual for '40 zeiss products. But maybe im wrong?

pictures are in my album. They are low quality, but that's the best my digital point&shoot can do.

edit: well, to be honest, now i'm trying to figure out if it's original or fake...

[Brian]

It gets "hazy" with most SN listings on the Internet after 2.8M.

I have an LTM Zonnar in the 2.85M range, and know it is German from the inner SN numbers on the helical, rear lens module, and overall construction. I've also seen lenses with SN's a few thousand later that were completed in Russia, after the War. Things missing like the Distance Markings on the focus ring!

http://www.davidrichert.com/age_model_.htm

You lens is probably in the late war years. Most some photo's of it. I can give some hints of what to look for.

See these threads on several LTM Sonnars:

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=120

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=143

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=224

[Brian]

The "M" in upper case is usually a sign of being engraved in Russia after the War. I suspect you have a ZK Sonnar with a German namering. It's most likely German Parts, assembled after the war in Russia. You will find it performs as well as those finished in Germany. My ZK Sonnar is every bit as sharp as the German wartime lenses.

[leicat]

////edit////
It's pure luck i've found your comments in gallery - i'm getting used to way this forum works.
Now everything seems to be clear. I only need to fix sonnar for body - it works properly with zorki and fed,
but misleads leica rf. There are 2 shims inside, tomorrow i will perform little test and try to make it work with m2.
Thanks for help, Brian!

[Brian]

Look for SN's on the portions of the focus mechanism. On mine, they were 3-digit numbers that were visible once the focus ring was off, and after separating the portions of the helical.

Look for the RF cam of the lens to be left in aluminum finish rather than black.

I "think" this is a transition lens, mostly German parts finished in Russia. I am working on one now for someone in the UK. The helical also needs to be moved further into the mount to focus at infinity on a Leica.

[leicat]

Hmm, i've checked SNs on optic module. There are not engraved but scratched: "257 (here something looking like n or greek "pi" symbol) 31-1". After unscrewing optics i can't see any numbers on mechanic part - only big "X" scratched, probably marked by serviceman.
Unfortunately, i can't take off focus ring.

[photovdz]

looks like a mix... some of those lenses were finished before the end of the war some not... yours have a mix of indices : M is russian, but the helical is more like a Zeiss ...
so it must be a very early zk finish. Lenses that were produced for early fed-zorkis or late fedS... In a way keeping it german like was a mark of quality ;-)
(remember that all the TVSS camera which were the most qualitative russian cameras at the time were delivered with CZJ lenses)

as for the bubbles ... a lot of small bubbles is not a sign of quality... but one or two bigger ones are ok...

S.

[LeicaTom]

A little birdy told me that the #285xxxx series CZJ Sonnar T's were built in December 1945 for use by the Russian Forces and they also found their way into postwar Black Market Trading in the west (I have seen a few American Servicemen's WW2 "bring back" kits with Leica IIIC's and these series lenses, recorded) they were built with original "wartime" era glass and parts, anyway you look at it, they are as rare and uncommon as the "wartime" lenses, even moreso.....with their strange Russian Military and Black Market connections.

Tom