Schneider xenon f2 50 into what Leica mount?

[s.west]

Hello everyone,
I have a really nice uncoated Schneider Xenon in an incomplete Certo camera. The lens dates to about 1936 I think, based on the Schneider serial number. Not having much hope to find parts needed to make a complete
Certo, I am considering at least using the lens in a Leica screw mount. I know that Leitz sold a screw mount Xenon at one time, but that is collector stuff that I cannot afford. Has anyone attempted such a conversion, or hack? Any input or suggestions would be welcome.

I see that Brian did a J8, Xenon, Sonnar project. Does the optic module from a Xenon fit in an I26 rear mount?

Thanks, Steve

[Brian]

I used the optics from a retina Xenon. The rear module and front module come off, leavng the aperture and shutter on the camera. You might try an I26 or I61 mount for the entire housing. I did that once for my Nikon S-Mount RF's, put a Kodak Anastigmat special in shutter onto a collapsible Sonnar shell.

I've been thinking of taking a spare Xenon from a parts IIa and doing the same thing.

[s.west]

Thanks Brian,
My lens is in an Compur Rapid shutter and is an f2. If I mount it in an I61 or I26, I would lose the f2 capability wouldn't I? Maybe I am not understanding what's going on here. If the resulting hybrid was restricted to 2.8 I guess that isn't such a big deal.

I would like to try a Sonnar in a J3 too.

Steve

[Brian]

What I am suggesting is to remove the optics module from the I61 and try to mount the entire lens/shutter assembly in the I61 mount. I'm not sure if it will work, but is worth a try. I did this for an S-Mount camera. I set the camera body to "T" and used the shutter of the Kodak for it. OR: set the shutter of the Kodak lens to "T" and used the Nikon's focal plane shutter.

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=138

You might also try looking at a junk Industar-10, Industar-22 or other collapsible where the focus mount is very short.

[japomono]

Just going back to the original post: I understand the Leitz xenon was a quite different lens. The first version of the 50/1.5 lenses of Leitz, it was definitively a RF lens. Whereas the Schneider Xenon can be mounted on retina reflex cameras.

These Schneider lenses are very good though. But, unless somebody corrects me, they are not related to the pre-war Leitz Xenon, I guess.

[Brian]

Remember that the original Retina Reflex using the 50/2 Xenon was a between-lens Shutter. So the same optics worked, as a lot of it was behind the shutter. It used the identical lens to the Retina IIIc. The mirror housing of the Retina Reflex is fairly small, it is non-instant return. The Xenon 50/ 1.9 for the Reflex-S is significantly redesigned. Sharper than the Summarit, gives similar Bokeh. Someday I'm going to mount one into LTM.

The pre-war Leitz Xenon was derived from the F2 Xenon. The F2 lens was 1-2-2-1 configuration, 6 elements in 4 groups. The TTH Xenon for the Leica split the latter element into two of lesser power to achieve the F1.5 speed, and was a 1-2-2-1-1, 7 elements in 5 groups. Interestingly, the first Nikon F-Mount F1.4 lens is derived from the Xenon by splitting the first element into two, for a 1-1-2-2-1 configuration. The Bokeh is almost the same as the Summarit.

[japomono]

I recently tried the Retina Schneider Xenon on a digital 5D body. The result is really impressive. The resolution wide open is top notch (at least in the centre) and the bokeh on the other hand remains nicely old-fashioned and swirly.

Very very good lens indeed.

(and very different from the pre-war Leitz Xenon)

[Brian]

Which lens did yout mount on the Canon? The F1.9 lens or the F2 lens? I would like to see the results and a picture of the camera with the lens on it.

[japomono]

It is a 1.9. The setting belongs to my father who has a set of lenses together with a Retina reflex and a retina RF. There have been adapters to EOS on ebay for a while, but their prices dropped recently so he purchased one to try out.

[Brian]

The 50/1.9 Xenon is a top notch German lens. I keep one on a Retina Reflex-S and another on a Retina III-S.

I'm going to try to convert the optics cells from a dead Retina IIIc to Leica Mount. Will be a real hack.

[rcbooth]

I have a spare f1.9 Xenon in Exakta mount. Its fairly light and somewhat compact and looks like it could be adapted much like the Septon I just finished.

[Brian]

That will be easier than doing one Retina mount Xenon. Yours has an aperture ring. I'll need to look for one of those.

[rcbooth]

The Exakta version is "pretty" and fairly light. It also seems that it would be more compact (ie, shorter) than the Retina Compur mount version due to lens to film plane differences between the two mounts.

[japomono]

To see the full resolution version of the 50/1.9 pic click <A HREF="http://bmpw.free.fr/xenon/mic.jpg">here</A>. With an EOS 5D (ie 24x36 sensor), no digital hacking.

[Brian]

That is really nice. I Love the 50/1.9 Xenon. Lower contrast, a real 50s lens.

[rcbooth]

I've started modifying an Exakta Xenon. This one had sticky aperture blades so it was an excuse to start. I stripped it completely and trimmed off the aperture / shutter button "leg". However I found that without this mechanism it isn't possible to stop down the aperture. The aperture selector is not directly coupled to the blades. I made a simple linkage (will post pictures) to connect the two. I put the lens back together. The next step is to cannibalize a scrap FSU lens for its mount and make an adapter to mate it to the lens. Rangefinder operation may be a later addition - there is precious little room to fit a piece around the rear element to follow the rangefinder arm.

[oldcam]

How's the Exakta Xenon project coming along, Rich? Just curious, right now I'm fascinated by the 50mm f2 version of the Exakta lens, I've got two, and just won a third earlier wartime lens that looks a lot more like the prewar Xenar I have. Can't wait to try this one out. Is there a difference between the f2 50mm Xenon and the f1.9 version? Really love using these lenses with M 4/3. The only thing I don't like is the stiffness of the focusing in all the old Schneider lenses I have in Exakta...