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dunk
03-22-2009, 06:34 AM
Hi, I'm dunk from Cambridgeshire UK and some of you may know me from the Leica User's Forum . This is my first significant post here and I'd like to share a restoration project with you ... have been semi-speed-posting to get past the "5" :-)

In March 2007 I made an offer on a Contarex Bullseye camera outfit comprising Bullseye body (also known as Cyclops), 50mm f2 Planar, 35mm f4 Distagon, 85mm f2 Sonnar, 135mm f4 Sonnar and 21mm f4.5 Biogon plus two interchangeable film magazine backs c/w dark slides, bellows and filters. I offered less than one third the advertised price because all the lenses appeared to have the dreaded fungus and I was taking a chance that any of them would be capable of being cleaned/polished and recoated. At the time I was only interested in having the 21mm lens serviced and having it converted to a Leica M mount. The 21mm Biogon is a very scarce and sought after lens. Much to my surprise the dealer (London Camera Exchange in the Strand, London) accepted my low offer and I struggled home with outfit ... it was much heavier than anticipated. I then approached a specialist lens refurbishment company (whose name I'll not reveal for fear of embarrassing them) and much to my amazement they offered to give an estimate to clean/polish/recoat all the lenses (ie the glass lens elements) and also service the camera. The camera and lenses were sent to them, estimate received and agreed and thus began what turned out to be a very long wait for the jobs to be finished. Each time I chased them as the months went by the same excuse was given ie "Two of the lenses are totally jammed and we cant dismantle them". Eventually last September they advised that they could not service the jammed lenses but that the others were almost ready .... and the camera body service was finished but they could not source a replacement selenium meter cell for it. When I asked why the work had taken so long the technician replied, "I told you he died!" ... presumably he was referring to his colleague but he had not told me that. Last month I again chased them and was finally advised they would prepare an invoice which was received and paid last week. The following were thus received back last Friday.

Let's start with the jammed / fungused lenses which have not been serviced because they are jammed solid ie focusing rings are immovable. All the other lenses' elements looked like these when I bought them. But I have now discovered it is NOT fungus ... it is lens grease lubricant which has evaporated from the helicoil and condensed onto the glasses ... leaving a glue-like residue on the helicoil which has jammed solid . The grease originally used is peculiar to Zeiss Ikon in 1959/60 and has this property.

Thus this is the jammed 135mm Sonnar which cannot be serviced
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1100.jpg

And this is the same lens with the similarly jammed 35mm Distagon which also cannot be serviced
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1087.jpg

If anyone can offer any tips for freeing up these lenses please advise ... I have tried flushing with lighter fluid a couple oi times but to no avail.

Now for the good news.

This is the beautiful and scarce 21mm f4.5 Biogon with all its lens' surfaces repolished and recoated together with the dedicated 21mm viewfinder
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1095.jpg


And this is the same 21 mm f4.5 Biogon and viewfinder on the Cyclops camera ... the "Cyclops" eye is in fact the exposure meter. The lens mount is so long that it can only be used on the body with the mirror locked up ... hence the need for the viewfinder in the accessory shoe.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1074.jpg

And here are the three lenses which have been serviced ie dismantled, cleaned, polished and recoated - but not every lens element required recoating. The 50mm Planar was also suffering from balsam separation; the elements were thus "split" and recemented using a special jig.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1078.jpg

This shows the 85mm Sonnar on the Cyclops body
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1082.jpg
Note the 50mm and 85mm lenses do not have aperture rings. The lens diaphragm is coupled to a cam arrangement in the rear of the lens interior which is coupled and activated by the finger operated wheel behind the Contarex logo on the body.

Here is the 85mm Sonnar attached to the bellows. The bellows is actually made by Novoflex.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1084.jpg

And here are two interchangeable film backs for the camera complete with dark slides. These enabled the use of different types of films with just one camera body.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1103.jpg
The camera is fitted with an ordinary sliding non-DS back at present but the DS magazines can be substituted enabling change of film "mid-roll".

The Contarex was and maybe still is the most complicated mechanical camera ever made and has approx. 1100 parts. Although popular in Germany in the early 60s it did not sell well because it was so expensive and heavy. Also, at that time the first Nikon F models began to dominate the professional 35mm camera market because they were cheaper, more reliable and offered a more comprehensive system ie more lenses and accessories.

However, it is generally acknowledged that the quality of Zeiss Contarex lenses has never been surpassed both optically and mechanically.

I'm looking forward to using the camera soon and may obtain a Contarex to 4/3 adaptor thus enabling use of the 50mm, and 85mm lenses on a 4/3 digital body. I think the 21mm lens will be too long to adapt for digital use.

Two years was a long time to wait but just to have the 21mm lens has been worth the wait. Since preparing this essay I have managed to find a 21-35mm lens hood and will add a picture of it soon.

Cheers

dunk

Brian
03-22-2009, 09:18 AM
I took a gamble on a Leotax D-IV with a Simlar 5cm F1.5 and a Canon 85/2 described as "worked before going into storage years ago".

The SImlar sound like your lenses. I was able to get the optics module out and let the focus mount soak in Lighter Fluid for three days. I used two rubber mouse pads to give a twist every few hours, and pout it back in. A few screws came out, and I used that as an inject port. On the second day, it "budged" the slightest bit. One more day, it was freed-up.

Can you get the optics out of the 135/4 lens? At least the front element? I might have a parts donor with a good mount and separated optics.

See this thread on the Simlar:

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=108

dunk
03-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Hi Brian, I have tried Ronsonol but only by squirting some into the mounts... not soaking the lenses ... latter would be a bit risky because of the fire hazard indoors or in my garage ... maybe can do it outside if can figure a way of safely immersing the lenses without the fluid evaporating. If I can free up the helicoils maybe the lenses will be worth working on ... but it looks as if someone has already tried to dismantle the 135mm because the screw slots are damaged so may need drilling out. I'm not an engineer so do not have high hopes for these two lenses. They were sent to a well known UK optical company for repair and if they were unable to shift the jammed lenses' helicoils then is probably unlikely that I can ... but I will try. Maybe the 35mm will be easier to "soak" being shorter than the 135mm ... and the 35mm shows no signs of being tampered with ie screw slots are clean and not burred over.

I do not have the tools to safely remove both the anuli/rings securing the front elements ... there is a serrated anulus on top of a slotted anulus. I have an adjustable ring tool which would fit into the two slots in the second ring ... but the top ring would need another ring tool to grip the serrations ... have to figure that one out to remove it safely.

Cheers

dunk

Brian
03-22-2009, 10:31 AM
For the soaking job: I put the lighter fluid and focus mount in a pyrex style cup and very tightly enclosed it in a plastic sandwich bag. Used rubber bands to keep it airtight.

The serrated ring probably comes out with a rubber gromet. I will try it on mine. I'm not sure how the mechanism connects up, but will give it a shot.

The focus mount and mechanics are good on it. It was $18 on Ebay, including shipping. It is a heavy lens. Maybe if I get the optics module out, that will lighten it a little.

dunk
03-22-2009, 11:19 AM
On the135mm lens I just tried the serrated ring and it was only finger tight ... thus unscrewed easily ... followed by one more ring which came out easily using my adjustable ring tool ... then the lens module dropped out easily but a tiny loose screw popped out too ... can only assume this is as far as the lens repairer got and then for whatever reason he did not proceed further ... his colleague said he died so maybe the job was just left on the shelf for months? ... The tiny screw is a mystery as can see no screw hole where it might have come from. So ... now I have the jammed mount , two rings and the lens module and the tiny screw. The iris diaphragm is moving freely. I will concentrate on the mount and try soaking it for a day or so but need to get some more Ronsonol and use your Pyrex dish method.

The lens module "popped out" of its housing easily after unscrewing its own retaining ring (this makes three retaining rings in all) but that is as far as I can go with it (the module) at the moment. I may need to post some more pix of the module and seek some advice as to how to separate the elements ... only the front elements seem to be affected by the deposits. And the deposits are only at the lens perimeter/circumference.

The 35mm lens has a very tight serrated ring so assume it was not dismantled by the repairer. I have not tried to remove the 35mm lens' retaining rings with a tool.

Thanks for your input.

Cheers

dunk

jarski
03-22-2009, 01:27 PM
I have similar stuck J-11 lens element situation in my hands, literally. even bought rubber gloves to get grip and screw the front out from focusing barrel. but no, it feels almost as super glued together... :confused:

Brian
03-22-2009, 08:38 PM
On the J-11, the lens module should unscrew from the mount very easily. BUT: I've seen more than one Russian lens glued in place rather than use the proper shims.

dunk
03-23-2009, 08:04 AM
I succeeded in dismantling the jammed 135mm lens. Thus the main part of the jammed focusing mount minus lens module and diaphragm module can now be soaked on Ronsonol lighter fluid to try and dissolve the solidified grease. This will be achieved using Brian's suggestion ie by immersing the aluminium mount in a Pyrex dish full of Ronsonol and sealing it with a plastic bag and rubber band to prevent evaporation - and will be left outside in the garden to soak for a couple of days because of the fire risk indoors.

The residual oil has condensed on the rear of the front lens element(s) and looks as if it might clean off if the module can be dismantled. But if the front elements are cemented together and the oil has penetrated the cement the cleaning might not be be possible ... I'm in unknown territory. It is possible to split cemented elements but they will require soaking in acetone for days ... or heating. Will let you know how the project progresses.

These are the main components after dismantling. In the first picture the diaphragm module on the left is very clean and the diaphragm operates smoothly. The focusing mount ie the lens barrel at the rear has a completely jammed focusing ring.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1142.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1127.jpg
The front lens element(s) in the module show the condensed oil deposits
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1137.jpg

Now have to try and dismantle the actual lens module which comprises several glass elements in their housing . Any ideas Brian as to how to proceed with this will be very much appreciated
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1136.jpg

The rear lens elements are quite clean
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1139.jpg

When the lens was away for service no work was done on it because of the jammed mount. Will be a good achievement if I can succeed where they did not. Interesting learning process too.

Cheers

dunk

Brian
03-23-2009, 04:02 PM
Okay- looking at that front lens module, with the Sonnar name ring off- I would try a suction cup to seee if the element comes out of the mount. I always use a Barbie Suncatcher vinyl suction cup that was spare in Nikki's art kit. Either breathe on the element and put the cup firmly on it and pull, or use a little cleaning solution. Works "most" of the time, including a stubborn Summicron element.

I'll take my Contarex 135/4 apart as well. The glass needs cleaning badly, but the mount is good. SO: if your mount does not free up, maybe Plan B.

jarski
03-23-2009, 05:31 PM
On the J-11, the lens module should unscrew from the mount very easily. BUT: I've seen more than one Russian lens glued in place rather than use the proper shims.

yep. I gave up trying twist the lens element, and will try with another one. luckily these lenses are so cheap.

dunk
03-23-2009, 07:36 PM
Okay- looking at that front lens module, with the Sonnar name ring off- I would try a suction cup to seee if the element comes out of the mount. I always use a Barbie Suncatcher vinyl suction cup that was spare in Nikki's art kit. Either breathe on the element and put the cup firmly on it and pull, or use a little cleaning solution. Works "most" of the time, including a stubborn Summicron element.

I'll take my Contarex 135/4 apart as well. The glass needs cleaning badly, but the mount is good. SO: if your mount does not free up, maybe Plan B.

Thanks Brian. I'll try it as soon as can obtain a suction device. And if the mount does not free up I'll consider Plan B. Regarding the Ronsonol as solvent ... would ordinary gasoline do the same job? I have not had a chance to start the 'soak' yet.

Cheers

dunk

dunk
03-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Okay- looking at that front lens module, with the Sonnar name ring off- I would try a suction cup to seee if the element comes out of the mount. I always use a Barbie Suncatcher vinyl suction cup that was spare in Nikki's art kit. Either breathe on the element and put the cup firmly on it and pull, or use a little cleaning solution. Works "most" of the time, including a stubborn Summicron element.

I'll take my Contarex 135/4 apart as well. The glass needs cleaning badly, but the mount is good. SO: if your mount does not free up, maybe Plan B.


Thanks Brian. I used a suction cup and the lens front element (call it 'A' ) pulled out smoothly and cleaned up well using iso propyl alcohol on a cotton cloth. But there are at least two more elements behind the one I pulled out ... call them 'B' and 'C' in the rear of the module.

There is also another element 'D' in the back of the diaphragm module making four elements in all ... which agrees with the construction stated in a table of Contarex lenses in the "Zeiss Compendium" . Unfortunately there is no schematic diagram in the book.

There is an anulus surrounding the cemented elements 'B' and 'C' which twisted off using firm finger/thumb pressure ... I'll post more pix later.

Cheers

dunk

Brian
03-24-2009, 06:22 AM
I prefer the Ronsonol as it is lighter and does not have additives. I've used gasoline to clean Nikon RF focus helicals, as shown in the SP repair manual.

Ronsonol seem to leave nothing behind when it evaporates.

dunk
03-31-2009, 12:41 PM
After extracting front element "A" with a suction cup, the anulus surrounding elements "B" and "C" twisted off ... here are the components ... the fourth lens element is in the rear of the diaphragm tube and it is quite clean

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1221.jpg

Close up of the module comprising elements "B" and "C" together with the anulus which twisted off with firm finger/thumb pressure.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1210.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1217.jpg
Now I have to 'split' the above elements "B" and "C" so as to clean the oil spots which have penetrated the cement

This diagram shows the middle elements "B" and "C" which need separating. The rear element "D" is in the rear of the tubular diaphragm mount. The join between "B" and 'C" is probably at the waist of the exterior metal sheath.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/czjson35_135.jpg

Close-up of the front of lens element "B" showing the oil stains in the cement between element "B" and "C"
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1211.jpg

Splitting lens elements is something I have not attempted previously but seem to recall that the cement can be softened using acetone ie nail varnish remover ... but it takes DAYS to penetrate.

Reading Thomas Tomosy's books he advocates separation by heating the elements with a hair drier for about an hour ... after fabricating an enclosure to keep the heat in ... will try this method and hope it works ... it may not work if the cement is not Canada balsam ... but vintage Contarex lenses are so prone to balsam faults that it seems likely that Canada balsam was in use in the mid 50s.

Once the elements are apart it should be possible to clean the residule cement and the oil stains using acetone and then re-cement them together.

I think Surplus Shed sells optical cement ... maybe not the same refractive index as Zeiss' original cement but maybe it will do the job.

This lens was going to be trashed but maybe it can be salvaged ... if the lens elements come apart and clean up ok then just have the focusing mount to free-up ... have not started the focusing mount soak yet.

Cheers

dunk

dunk
04-02-2009, 06:52 PM
Managed to source and purchase metal lens hoods ie 50-135mm and 21-35mm

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1266.jpg
Fitted to the 85mm f2 Sonnar

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/kirkwoodpix/DSCF1261.jpg
Fitted to the 21mm Biogon

Had opportunity to buy a Contarex 85-250mm f4 zoom last week but declined - partly because was expensive but also because is a massive lens, very heavy (2.7Kg plus weight of its case) and would have no real use for it. The asking price was £700 which was quite reasonable considering its rarity ... only 581 were made c. 1966 and was one of the very first quality zoom lenses "made to the same performance standards applied to fixed focal length lenses" ( Zeiss Compendium, Barringer and Small)

Cheers

dunk

Brian
04-02-2009, 08:10 PM
Keep us posted on recementing the optics. I had one Summitar front group that would NOT come apart.

The Nikkor 80~200 F4.5 was Nikon's first zoom that was taken seriously. It was $800 when new almost 30 years ago. Now- you can pick them up for $30. It is not rare, but is as good as the fixed-lens telephoto's in its range.

dunk
04-02-2009, 11:23 PM
Keep us posted on recementing the optics. I had one Summitar front group that would NOT come apart.

The Nikkor 80~200 F4.5 was Nikon's first zoom that was taken seriously. It was $800 when new almost 30 years ago. Now- you can pick them up for $30. It is not rare, but is as good as the fixed-lens telephoto's in its range.

Hi Brian, Might not be able to split the lens until next week ... have sourced some Canada Balsam in UK ... also some glass cement, brand name
BONDLOC http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=46005 which has been recommended as suitable ... but prefer to try Canada Balsam.

Cheers

dunk

Edit 29 May: Will be getting back to this project soon.